The Houston Music Blog section of the Free Press Houston.

Sunday, August 17, 2008

The White Swan Fisticuffs

posted by Ramon Medina - LP4 @ 8:51 AM

Well the White Swan's staff pulled a doozy on Thursday - getting in a fisticuffs with its patrons. We wanted to get both sides before we blogged about it so here is what both sides have to say and you can decide for yourself.

The incident is blogged here in Live journal (Link) and here is an abbreviated version:
"Last night a couple of friends and I went to go see my friends' bands play at The White Swan. ... It all started when a (female) friend of mine who will remain nameless for now accidentally left her car keys inside and knocked on the door after closing and simply asked if she could get her keys... then for no reason, one of the OWNERS and employees started to brutally assault her and at least four other people (two of which were girls). One of them was beaten in the head by the butt of a shotgun so badly that she had gashes in her head pouring blood all over and had to be taken away in an ambulence.

As soon as I realized what was happening, I stepped in to defend my friends and next thing I know, the owner of the place puts a gun to my face and threatens to "Blow my fucking brains out" and immediately after he beat me with the end of the gun too . I was covered in blood and had to go to the emergency room as well.

Both of the men were arrested last night and a couple of people are pressing charges."


Alex Martinez of The White Swan called and here is a paraphrased account of what he told me:

The bar is closed and there are three employees. Martinez hears a loud banging on the door and people shouting to open up. He eventually approaches the door to see what's what. Outside he encounters three women and one man. One woman outside tells him she needs her keys. He says "We're counting money and I can't let you in right now."

She replies, "So you're not going to do anything about it?"

"Not right now." he says and starts to go back in the club.

"Fuck you!" she shouts.

"What?" he says.

"Fuck You!" she says

"No, fuck you!" he says and she spits at him. He shoves her away then the woman's male friend comes at him and they get into a fight. Eventually, he's fighting the guy and the three women and tries to get back inside. The other two employees inside block the door to let Martinez in and try to close the door but the group outside is holding the door open. Martinez goes inside to get the shotgun and tells them to "Get the fuck away from the door!"

"Are you going to shoot me?" one woman shouts.

"I'll shoot you if you don't get away from the goddamn door!" he shouts. Martinez tells his guys to go out the rear exit and around to lock the front door from the outside (the door at this point won't lock from the inside). The two White Swan guys go out, lock the door, and they get attacked and on the way back to the rear exit.

Martinez calls 911 at this point but, as he's with the operator, he notices the police lights outside. The White Swan employees are all taken by the cops for questioning and are eventually released and told that the DA won't press charges but that they could if they wanted to press charges against the kids.

Martinez says he doesn't want these kids to go to jail but he's been met with so many threats and phone calls that he may have to. "I have pictures of my guys and the damage done to the venue and the police report backs me up but i don't want this to go any further but I do want the parents to know what happened because I'm a parent and they deserve an explanation. I'm a parent so I'd want an explanation but they've only heard one side. There were a lot of bad choices made on both sides."

Labels:

73 Comments:

At August 17, 2008 2:45 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

So these guys are not denying they were beating girls with the butts o shotgun butts? However, it 'escalates', one has to question themselves at that point....

 
At August 17, 2008 3:23 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

No, the guy actually did flat out deny it when i asked him.

If I called him and said "What the fuck is your problem?" I doubt I'd get much of a story out of anyone. So, I'm just posting his account, throwing it out there, and letting the public decide.

 
At August 17, 2008 3:29 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My name is Porter and I am the one in the picture.
Please make sure to read my livejournal post and pass the word on.
Needless to say, they've seriously downplayed what they did and made an attempt to make the real victims sound much worse.

If they've gotten death threats or damage to their venue, it isn't our fault. Everyone knows men aren't supposed to beat up girls. All we're doing is telling the story of what happened to us.

 
At August 17, 2008 3:54 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Hey Porter thanks for commenting, sorry to hear about all this, and I hope you're recovering well.

I linked to the livejournal post hoping that everyone would follow and read the entire thing there. What's posted here was more of the meat and potatoes but not the entirety of that blog (as it'd be redundant).

 
At August 17, 2008 3:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for your help in me getting this message out. We all appreciate it so much.

I'd also like to say this to the owners and employees of White Swan:
All you had to do was give her back the car keys. All she wanted was to be able to drive home.

 
At August 17, 2008 4:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was one of the three girls involved. I honestly can't believe how they are trying to put us in the wrong. We were the victims, the only reason their employees are now wounded, is because they beat up three women & people retaliated, because everyone knows that you don't beat up women. We were three girls. Yes, my friend did bang on the door for her keys, isn't that what you do when you need something from inside, you knock on a door? as a bartender, or an employee of a bar, the step they should've taken was either let her in, and her in only, & walk her to her keys if they were so scared about the money, either that, or one of them should've gone & found them themselves, does it really take 8 people to count a bank? The whole counting money excuse is stupid. I've been a bartender before, white swan might be a venue, but the same rules apply, I know the drill of closing down, & your main priority is that everyone gets home safe, not that you leave them outside without keys & tell them that they're going to have to wait until you finish closing. I walked up & saw my girlfriends head gushing blood, & when i started yellingm "i don't care who you are you don't hit a girl" , i got a shot gun pulled in my face & then thrown into the middle of the road. I was the girl that laughed & said what you're gona shoot me? Because I honestly couldn't believe what was going on. You're going to threaten to shoot me for that? what was the need of a shot gun anyways? actually what was the need of any physical force at all. as a place of work, you're supposed to avoid violence at all cost. all she needed was her keys, not a shotgun to the head. we were three girls. & I'm sorry but in no case should some huge guy curb stomp a girls leg & hit another girl in the face with a butt of a shotgun. I myself weigh about freakin 90 lbs, and you had to take that much physical force to me? for no reason? just b/c i said you don't hit a girl?
of course the guys got beat up afterwards, there were tons of guys that didn't work there that saw the incident & knew who was in the wrong.

i just think all of that was a harsh way in handling a small situation. all of this bc someone left their keys inside. thats not how a business should be ran. & the owner talks about how he wants parents to know b/c he's a parent and yadda yadda, well as a parent, he should've stopped young teen girls from being bashed with a weapon.

 
At August 17, 2008 5:13 PM , Anonymous omar said...

Gathering from what I read and have been told, none of this occurred inside the club. Assuming I am correct (as I always am except for that one time in 98'), they could have easily locked themselves up inside the club and just called the cops if these scary girls were just that bad. The onus is on them to be grown ups and to avoid this kinda shit. Right or wrong, anyone who puts their hands on a lady in anger deserves to get a hefty beatdown..

 
At August 17, 2008 6:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am another of the girls that was assaulted.. Ashley.. The one that got my legs stomped on the ground.

If they seriously flat out denied bashing people in the head with a rifle, I can't possibly understand how they can get to sleep at night. All I did was scream at him after I saw him hit Bonnie in the face with a rifle. If anyone from their staff got hurt, rest assured it was well deserved and things had hit a point where just us GIRLS couldn't defend ourselves any longer.

And Omar-
Dude.. Well stated, my friend.

Thank you for posting their side of the story as well. I've been wondering how they convinced those two or three people that heard about it that they were just breaking up a mosh pit. HA HA. What a joke... Thank you for posting and getting this out!

 
At August 17, 2008 7:13 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

either way....YOU DON'T PUT HANDS ON GIRLS. plain and simple.
have any of y'all seen the pictures of the girls BEATEN UP BY MALE STAFF AT THIS PLACE?!?!?!
yeah bruises. black eyes. scratches. road burn. wtf is wrong w/ people today

 
At August 17, 2008 7:15 PM , Anonymous Britt said...

About their side of the story - why wouldn't they let one person inside to look for their keys? Obviously they have guns for self defense if she pulled one and you could just keep her away from wherever they are counting. Also, why did witness across the street see the fight in the parking lot? Seems like if a gun is pulled it should be easy to lock the door after backing off a young girl.

I think them making a public statement like this was another bad move on their part because the story is flawed and in court they are going to need a much better one.

I speculate that as soon as the door was closed they busted out the meth and became paranoid and had meth rage. Isn't one of those guys toothless - a sign of meth? :)

If Martinez is a parent I'd sure like to pistol whip his kid and then whine about why I'm getting death threats. Eye for an eye! Genghis Khan 2008!!!

 
At August 17, 2008 7:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

And notice that in HIS account of what happened, HE started the physicality after she "spit on him". A girl spits on you and you shove her.. to the ground I might add, I saw it..? It turned into a big brawl because he touched a girl, and respectable men don't like that. ANd seriously take a step back and think about what happened... A man assaulted some 5 people with a deadly weapon all because we could get in the car to drive home. I guess we were supposed to sit around outside and wait til morning? And it was 3 GIRLS who couldn't get in their car.. that right there shows what kind of guy he is for not caring that we would have sat on the streets of downtown all night.

 
At August 17, 2008 7:27 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Hey Britt,

Not to belittle your feelings on this - they are welcome - but lets keep the meth comments, the pistol whipping kids, and similar type of comments in check. It doesn't reflect well on anyone to go that route. Be the bigger person and keep the punches above the belt.

Thanks

 
At August 17, 2008 9:14 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

From what I can tell, the story sounds valid and fair overall. IF anyone spat on me or anyone else I'm sure you would push someone away, and I'm certain someone whose their friend would definitely butt in to take that up as a defense, and in return would I or that person spit upon if someone else was going after them.

Bare in mind that, that neighborhood isn't exactly a area where someone should take chances with anyone, especially with the possible use of weaponary on either party.

Plus lets add in the fact that two of his employees were beaten and from what I gathered with broken ribs and the such. So is it fair to hit a woman? I say its fair in the light of defense and disorderly conduct..afterall a fight is a fight, esp when its after a long night in a atmospehere of drinking. I certainly wouldn't take a chance on anyone screwing me over.

The situation started with a act of violence and disrespect, a chick spitting on a guy, he pushed her away, someone else retaliating, and of course chaos ensues. Sounds pretty damn fair to me and understandable

Is there anyone right in this situation and could this all have been avoided...? yes, if she had not had spit and maybe used a few more words, then maybe this would be avoided.

Overall it seems to me like no one is claiming responsibility for their actions..as usual. People don't get their asses kicked without a reason of misunderstanding. And this looks like a case where that happened..and further more it was brutally done as it usually is. Its excessive I admit, but I agree with Martinez's last comment..."there were a lot of wrongs done" and there wasy like in any other fight.

Sorry to hear, but to me this just seems a bit overstated and like bad rogue journalism

 
At August 17, 2008 10:20 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Wow, so I pretty much just post both sides of the story and I'm guilty of bad rogue journalism?

Please elucidate. I'm curious what you mean by this.

 
At August 17, 2008 11:33 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well your not going to a valid credible source. Sure, you have two view points from two parties involved, but in fairness they both lack a certain amount of credibility. One party can say their story and so can the other, and of course they will contrast to a fair extent, but no answers will become of it. You'll only leave people taking sides on 2 limited and potentially clouded arguments.

So far I do not see any credible source from officers or the police department over the issue who may have more credible details and physical forms of evidence to site. In the end this sounds like a two sided argument leaving details out such as these other co-workers from the White Swan, who we do not know hardly any info about that beyond them allegedly being attacked. Allegedly being a key word in this case as I would see it as a open case still liable of legal action.

I would like to hear from the police department on the matter to get a full story, esp of this kind of brutal nature. So people can either avoid such a dangerous place or not.

Rogue journalism may have been a harsh word, so I apologize for that. But there seems to be a few details missing that one party mentions and the other doesn't in my opinion and I would like to see what the police have to offer as they are more credible sources than that of two upset and hostile groups who in all fairness are involved in their own best interest.

 
At August 18, 2008 12:05 AM , Anonymous ThugLifeIndubitably said...

I wonder if perhaps that poster meant his last comment to be directed at the young lady's journal. If so, I completely agree with him. If it was directed toward Ramon, it is, in my opinion, completely off the mark.

I know Ramon. Though, not well, I know him well enough to have much respect for his honesty when speaking/writing. This post was not in the least bit rogue. He's a stand up dude.

 
At August 18, 2008 12:21 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i dont know any of the people in this situation personally. so here is a fair view on things.

It is wrong to hit a chick, period.
So what is she spit on him? I been spat on by a girl before, i been slapped and even hit on the head by one haha. Now did i deserve it, maybe i did sometimes. But it wasnt enough to make me go all berzerk and beatr this shit out of them. its a girl, they cant hurt a big man, especially a girl that supposedly weighs about 90 lbs.
comon give me a break. was it a bad decision to spit, yes. but not deserving enough to get whacked with the end of a shotgun. just take that shit like a man.

i really dont see what was wrong with just letting her in alone and letting her get her keys, then the night would have been over too.
I am in a band, i have accidently left a piece of equipment in once at a how. the staff easily allowed me to go in and get what i needed.
These guys were hiding something if they had to get this way.

what worries me is that this place will continue to run after this situation passes. If it does then it is likely to happen again maybe. it needs to be shut down. thats no way to run a respectable business.

My band Dearest Death will personally like to tell the White Swan not to ever invite us. I dont care if fuckin Peter Murphy is the main act, we will not sell out and play at a place that uses such violence to its clients.

These people came, and had such a good time seeing their friends band and having a great evening. Then only to have the night end like this. Its so sad. Wake Up call to the White Swan, these people that pay to get into your venue and pay for the drinks you sell are the ones that keep your asses in business. good luck bouncing back from this.

thats all i got to say about this.

DD

 
At August 18, 2008 2:10 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a reminder to make sure you have your keys before you leave!

 
At August 18, 2008 2:25 AM , Anonymous Pissed Off said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At August 18, 2008 4:37 AM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Anonymous "Rouge Journalist" dude,

Perhaps you missed the entire point of the piece. Go to the home page and read my link to this piece. I think it very unequivocally sets up what this article is and is not: Kung Fu Theatre presents: The White Swan.

Clearly you didn't understand the intent and scope of the piece and are making hasty judgments based on that false premise.

 
At August 18, 2008 5:25 AM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Attention "Pissed off",

I deleted your comment.

Perhaps my mild rebuuke of Britt didn't make it clear enough but that kind of garbage you posted (above and beyond Britt's and with nothing else going for it) isn't going to fly here. Leave your racial epithets for the clan website.

Everyone else, know that I will delete any commentary that throws racial, sexist, or any other such empty epithets at either party. Most of the commentary here has been fine but if you want a forum for that that kind of stupidity, go to the Houston Chronicle Reader Commentary.

 
At August 18, 2008 6:55 AM , Anonymous omar said...

This is getting great- Ramon, doing the smartest thing, is merely posting 'both' sides of the story and getting rebuked..that don't make sense. Don't shoot the messenger. Nonetheless, striving for 'objectivity' can sometimes get in the way of the truth. For example, why does someone need to 'push away' a girl that spits on you? Just go inside and lock the damn door. For both a legal standpoint and ethical one, the staff at White Swan simply should have not come outside if their was such a threat. Once you start rumbling in the street as opposed to taking safe harbor, you are no better than your attacker and are just engaging in voluntary violence.

As for anyone on this site using racist comments, fuck off. We only allow disparaging comments about White people (minus the Irish).

Lastly, Ramon, 'clan' is spelled with a 'K'.....

 
At August 18, 2008 7:17 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

These club owners and employees are horrible! I've already made sure to let all my friends and all their friends know to never go to that joint. If they want to beat up girls then good job, you just lost a TON of paying customers, and you're probably gonna have to shut down. Serves you right.

 
At August 18, 2008 7:21 AM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Yeah Omar I hear ya but ...

Well since it seems to be getting lost here let me just repost what I wrote in the lead-in from the homepage which I referred to in the rebutal above. I wrote:

"Like any story there are three sides - one person's account, another person's account, and the truth. We make no attempt to give the third but we do have the first two for you. "

I'm not purporting to be getting at the truth, This isn't some Edward R. Morrow piece of investigative journalism and anyone who thinks that is sorely mistaking its intent.

Also, I'm being neutral and not throwing out my opinions for two reasons:

1) It's an incomplete picture and I can't make that any more plain than in the introduction I quote above.

2) I also don't want to put in my two cents in here becasue I think that would hamper any discussion people may have.

 
At August 18, 2008 7:50 AM , Anonymous TSN! said...

it's good to see that the staff at the White Swan is gender-blind. We should applaud their courageous refusal to subject women to lower standards to men and serving up a justly deserved push to any punk that spits on another person. Here Here great champions of equality - we salute you!

We dunno about the other stuff, though.

 
At August 18, 2008 8:07 AM , Blogger gaijin said...

To all -- there's nothing wrong with posting both sides (or 2 of the 3 sides, as it were) to a story. That's not "rogue journalism," by any means, but an honest attempt to be even-handed in approaching something that's a bad, bad situation all 'round.

Kudos to Ramon for the way he's handled this; I think he's being amazingly unbiased about it. Hell, did anybody else go out & get a comment from the White Swan staff? I sure as hell didn't (in part because I am a rogue journalist, dammit).

I've ranted elsewhere about this, but I have to say that even taking Mr. Martinez's side of things into account, there's a lot that doesn't make sense here. Did the WS staff honestly think they were about to be robbed by a bunch of Goth kids? And how many people does it take to count the night's take, anyway?

I'll admit that I haven't seen the club staff in question, but I've been around enough bartenders & door guys in my time to say that they generally don't need protection from the folks who come to the shows. I've been at Fitz and Emo's after closing time before and have never witnessed any problems, not even when one band set up an impromptu after-show outside on the Fitz porch. Whatever was said by the girls in question, I think the staff overreacted badly.

I have a feeling this mess is going to get worse/weirder before it gets better, unfortunately...

 
At August 18, 2008 8:59 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the pictures say it all. & once again i will state, the guys were beaten after they beat the women.

 
At August 18, 2008 9:13 AM , Anonymous Food For Thought said...

So does nobody want to point out the fact that most of the people at this show were more than likely under age? Does the fact that the girl who was first 'attacked' was a minor not matter? I've been to the White Swan, and there was never any trouble getting a drink, and I myself am under age, so you would think that the owners/employees would do anything to avoid police interference seeing as how they were selling alcohol to minors.

I dunno..just thought I'd throw that out there.

 
At August 18, 2008 9:39 AM , Anonymous Britt said...

This is good journalism because it states what both sides are saying. The police are hardly a credible source because you can run into a biased cop who will believe whatever he wants to believe and damn the evidence! I should know, I've been arrested because I defended myself from an assault because the cop didn't like my haircut. So, where is the credibility?

Well, all the reader can do is look at both sides and come to their own conclusion - we have a minor and a young man with staples in their head and stories that don't match up. We have not even an attempt at a valid excuse for use of such excessive force. We have a brawl that happened outside of the venue because they were trying to keep one person from getting inside.

From what I heard too is that the venue owners originally told the police it was an out of control mosh outside which is illogical and doesn't even get mentioned in their side of the story here.

This venue is getting shut down, all the bands scheduled to play there have been notified and this incident is getting around to people who do go out to venues. Even if it somehow does manage to keep making money I guarantee the venue will be sold to pay off the legal fees :)

It isn't tough at all to figure out which story is bunk. I even listed my suspicions above on why it occurred so violently.

Good reporting Ramon.

 
At August 18, 2008 9:40 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another venue lost because of underage drinking suburban Sid And Nancy wannabes going into a bad neighborhood thinking they can own the world yet run to mom and dads house in Katy and call in the lawyers when the shit goes down. If your going to act tough then this shit will happen. I've been robbed and had my ass kicked many times. Welcome to the real world of underground punk rock. You got beat they got beat no one wins. Grow up. If you want to be a punk you take it. If you want to act punk rock you sue. Pose or don't pose.
Bill Fool

 
At August 18, 2008 10:03 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

OH Shit!- Someone played the 'punk rock' card! Because if you are really 'punk rock' you don't have parents or sue people who crack your skull! That is so cool."Welcome to the real world of underground punk rock"? Do you get alot of miles out of corny little cliche phrases like that?

 
At August 18, 2008 10:30 AM , Blogger gaijin said...

Gee, that's great. If getting your ass kicked is what it takes to be a true punk, then I'm damn glad I'm not one.

Sorry, but that's the most ridiculous thing I've read all morning.

 
At August 18, 2008 10:47 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry I must being getting bitter in my old age. I need to stop calling it the way I see it. Oh Shit! did I use another cliche?
Mr. Bill "old bitter punk guy" Fool

 
At August 18, 2008 10:49 AM , Anonymous adr said...

Bill Fool in the house!

 
At August 18, 2008 11:04 AM , Blogger ms. rosa said...

ATTN: PORTER, ASHLEY, AND ANONYMOUS GIRL (I know who you are anon, and i'm saying this with all the love in my old, grizzled heart):

I want to personally congratulate you: You didn't let some loud mouthed asshole stop you from spitting in his face (check!) and risk possible serious injury (check!). THAT MAKES Y'ALL THE BIGGEST BADASS PUNKS IN TOWN! If I were you I'd be running around pointing at my stitches and going "But did you get curb stomped and butted in the head with a shotgun? I don't think so! So fuck off, you pussy!"

Hold your heads up, don't cry about it, and wear your punk rock pride on your sleeve. Better yet, when people bring it up just say "Aw, shucks, it was nothing..." That would be a new shade of "cool".

 
At August 18, 2008 11:46 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man nothing is cool or punk at all about this shit... I hope the venue doesn't get shut down for this... That girl is fucking dumb for that... obviously they can't let you in if they are counting money!!! All you had to say was okay well how long do you think it would be till i can grab my keys? because i need my keys to leave Thanks and i bet shit would have been better... but i guess they are just so punk rock!!!

 
At August 18, 2008 12:06 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its not bad that he hit them because they are girls its bad because they are people. making the problem about gender is really fucking sexist, if thats the way this scene works: its ok for men to fight but not ok for women, then mabey I should go to Austin or Denton. THATS FUCKING SILLY TO THINK THAT GENDER IS A FACTOR! I really want to be on the side of the people who forgot their keys, but its just so hard to be on the side of sexists.

 
At August 18, 2008 12:22 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i don't think being "punk rock" had anything to do with this. now you people are just being fools.

 
At August 18, 2008 12:27 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

funny thing is these little girls walk around that place like they own it. throwing hissy fits when they cant get into a show. these suburban spoiled "PUNKS" finally got a reality check. stay in sugar land if you think you can get everything you want. too many little girls walk around the white swan half drunk acting like they are untouchable.

 
At August 18, 2008 1:04 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously you can't let people in when you're counting money! That's how people get robbed. These little KIDS are so sheltered and retarded they think they can yell and scream like a baby and have no repercussions to any of their actions, ever.

I know these kids personally and they've got the collective IQ of a rottweiler, get thrown out of places all the time, and are categorically poseurs in every sense of the word. This was bound to happen sooner or later, probably not their last time either. They love the drama and had Myspace pics within hours of it happening and WILL NOT STOP POSTING BULLITINS ABOUT IT! SOOO ANNOYING!

Considering their history I hope the White Swan presses charges.

P.S. Where am I where all the good shit goes down. C'mon who's got this on YouTube?! Title it "Temper Tantrum Throwing Skanks Get Beaten!"

 
At August 18, 2008 1:30 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, well in all honesty, porter sounds like a little bitch who wants to start drama and throw a pitty party for himself, and the three dumb girls. i mean, thats not only a business, but thats theyre home! you dont go banging on someones house at 3 in the morning. i mean yeah, all she asked for was her keys, but they were counting money, shit i wouldnt let some dumb drunk bitches in either, id have em wait. the white swan are people filled up with respect and they dont care who you are, they always treat everyone equal, but as you can see, some dumb rich white kids feel that they can say and do what ever it is that they want, and im sorry, but NO they cant! if he wanted to he could of shot them, but did he? no. it has nothing to do with sexism, so for everyone that thinks that and thinks theyre standing up for feminism, your all fucking idiots, im a feminist myself and its not like he "attecked" them because they were female, he warned them to get away from the door, but they kept screaming and making threats, and spitting in someones face, you dont do that i dont care who you are. i support the white swan 1,000% and so does everyone i know, male and female.

 
At August 18, 2008 1:55 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Hey peeps. Can we chill with calling people bitches and what not? Is it really that hard to state an opinion without resorting to Ad Hominem attacks?

Hate to act like we're in rhetoric 101 class but let me refresh everyone on why this type makes the commentator foolish: Fallacy: Ad Hominem

 
At August 18, 2008 2:21 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you can't handle the ward don't go in the first place.
that's just how things roll down there. either grab your balls and learn or cry and move on.

 
At August 18, 2008 2:58 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

no offense to any of the girls, but i honestly think that the one who spit had brought it upon herself. didn't she get into a physical fight with a boy just a couple nights before at the same place, for the exact same reason?

 
At August 18, 2008 3:40 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

stop snitching!


take action...

all the police are going to do is side with the party that has there story straight, and there will be no winners.

Cops in this city do nothing.

 
At August 18, 2008 3:57 PM , Anonymous Chuck said...

By all accounts I've heard by people AT THAT SHOW, ON THAT NIGHT. Porter, Ashley, and Bonnie were all intoxicated, and Bonnie had started a fight earlier that night. I'd love to hear her deny spitting in Mr. Martinez's face, because the fight she started earlier that night involved her spitting in someone else's face.

Funny how that part of the story never got mentioned, huh?

I've left my keys at the white swan before. They let me in to get them, and I didn't get my head busted open. It's called diplomacy.

Hell, I've had my tires slashed by some little punk at the White Swan before. Not only did they let me in AFTER THE SHOW to call some people, but Barney helped me find a tire shop AND GAVE ME A FREE TIRE from the back.

These girls are full of shit. Underage spoiled scene kids have no place in the 2nd Ward at night, especially not if their gonna get drunk, lose their keys, and try to beat down the door of the local bar.

!VIVE CLASE OBRERA!
!VIVE ESTABLECIMIENTOS DE CLASE OBRERA!

-chuck

 
At August 18, 2008 3:59 PM , Anonymous Food For Thought said...

Seriously people, keep the fact that you may know the people involved out of your mind while you read the story. It doesn't matter if you don't like the people involved, what matters is what happened. I just think this whole thing has gotten ridiculous and blown out of proportion. Do what your going to do legally if your going to do it, don't turn this into another thing to war about online. And being 'punk rock' really has nothing to do with this, nor does being a spoiled white kid...this is about keys and guns...keep it simple people...

Punk Rock! Haha...I couldn't resist :)

 
At August 18, 2008 4:18 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

if it wasn't for bonnie none of that shit would have happend. but still you cant go hitting girls with rifles, i was there thats fucked up and action should be taken. and punk hahaha houston has the stupidest punk scene ever! fuck you crust kids and you faggot wannabe street punk 40 oz drunk leftover cock bullshit! you guys wouldnt know punk if it hit you in the face! (no pun attended)

 
At August 18, 2008 4:20 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since Houston is going to lose yet another venue for Punk And Hardcore (only a couple small ones that are all ages left in the Loop) why don't you Kids open up a new club with the money you plan on winning once this goes to court. You can make it byob and have a real blast.

 
At August 18, 2008 5:25 PM , Anonymous Sarah said...

As a girl who grew up in South America and a punk who used to live in Houston too, you should probably be polite when you're asking for your keys back. I've been outside the White Swan for nearly an hour waiting for a ride home with another friend of mine, and while several of us were intoxicated, we kept it quiet and we bothered no one. From what I know, there has been no record of assault until this extremely aggressive (she did get into a fight about spitting on someone else that night and assaulted another girl too), drunk girl decided she could square up to a bunch of big, possibly drunk guys and nothing would happen. I'm sorry that the people involved got so badly injured, and I do think the force was excessive, but I think these kids need to wise up too.

Also, the White Swan is (or was, at least) one of the few places left in Houston that held punk shows. Don't spit in the owner's face and scream obscenities at him, learn some goddamn respect.

 
At August 18, 2008 5:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At August 18, 2008 6:16 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At August 18, 2008 6:17 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

whatever...the clubs story sounds fishy to me... go and read more carefully and you will see what i mean...

 
At August 18, 2008 7:11 PM , Blogger Ramon Medina - LP4 said...

Ok people let me be clear. Make your point without calling the women XX or the club guys a XX. Both comments I just deleted had some OK commentary but yet couldn't refrain from calling the women "bitches". Sorry, the grace period is over.

Grow up and learn how to express a point of view like an adult. If that's too much to ask then perhaps you should refrain from commenting as I'm just going to delete it anyhow.

 
At August 18, 2008 7:44 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I know one of the girls(the girl who spit) personally. She was VERY highly intoxicated and spit on one of her OWN good friends just 30 minutes before this. All I'm saying is the girl doesn't think and probably said some things out of line to cause the chaos.

I'm not condoning hitting women in ANY way, that was WAY out of line. But for her not to wait another 5 to 10 minutes to get her keys before shooting off her mouth is moronic.

Do you realize how much crap those people have to put up with? I mean, it's not the greatest venue, but it's the last of it's kind that serves cheap beer, has FREE SHOWS, and actually let real punk bands play.

For you to disrespect it is not cool. I'm not friends with anyone who works there, I don't work there, I just go to shows there. My g/f and I are friends with all 3 of the girls that were involved and we've heard each one of their stories, each one WIDELY stretched from the one before.

Is it going to stop my g/f and I from going to shows there? FUCK NO. I enjoy the fuck out of that place, and I'm sorry you don't know how to handle your alcohol and get hurt.

I do however, have MUCH sympathy for Porter, mainly cuz he was just looking out for the girls.

I think both parties need to apologize, the white swan employees should all chip in and pay for the 2 people who required medical attention(not everyone required it like they're all saying, cuz my friend works in the ER they went to and told me who required it), and get on with your fucking lives.

Quit pouting and taking up all the room on my bulletins with this crap.


THANK YOU.




AGAIN, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION.

 
At August 18, 2008 7:45 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all, if you want to call those beasts woman then ok. This venue has done nothing more than provide a duty free opportunity for bands, some of which aren't worth a shit, to express their music. So, you all got your ass whooped. I'm sure you would have been treated a lot worst had you kicked on teh front door and broke out the window of the Warehouse Live or Meridian. Anyway, you're in the hood so if you you want to play in it...take the ass whooping and move on...

 
At August 18, 2008 9:15 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the employees of the White Swan- even though I do not agree with the attack on a girl/girls you should know this is not the first club these group of kids created a problem.

This is just another incident they are once again claiming to be victims but it seems to me that they are very much the problem.

 
At August 18, 2008 10:39 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

all this being said i hope everybody shows up to the freeshow this saturday.
if you think the white swan is wrong for what they did then dont go!! show your support not only for the local bands but to the people at the white swan for giving houston a place to have local bands play. come with respect and you will get respect.

leave the high school drama at home!!!
yall know who you are!

 
At August 18, 2008 11:13 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love it when people use the phrase "your an idiot" It makes me laugh every time. Oh and I heard it was a goth show.. and goth kids.. well if you were truly goth shouldn't you have slit your wrists back in the 80's anyway? why are you still here?

 
At August 18, 2008 11:38 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Put your keys in your pocket or on a string around your neck.

I am a female and if i were to spit in someon's face, well..Hit me no matter what sex you are.

When you work at a venue..After a show or a bar closing or whatever at 2:00am people are ready to go home..Tired of the drunks and careless people losing shit. Get yourself together and don't lose your keys. Buy a hide a key for under your tires..call a cab..sleep it off and the next day go get your keys..

There is thing called cause and reaction.. Spitting in someon's face would cause you to get your ass beat..Being drunk and screaming at someone would prob cause you to get your ass beat..

Move on get over it Blogs never help anything..If you want some advice on this go to a shreink..

 
At August 19, 2008 9:43 AM , Anonymous Jef With One F said...

I find it funny that most of the comments against Ash, etc. are anonymous.

 
At August 19, 2008 9:45 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My 2 cents, the girls are lucky to have their heads and their friends are lucky to be alive. If you bang on a door after closing of a bar and the owner says just a minute, you better hold on for as long as he says. A grand jury is going to laugh when somoene tries to prosecute a bar owner who had to blast what he thought could have been robbers. Believe me, your lucky to be alive. Very lucky. Having seen many cases like this I suggest appologizing to the owners and thanking them for not pulling the trigger. Imagine, your counting your money after hours in a place you know has a pretty high degree of crime. Someone, any one male or female is beating on your door. What are your first thoughts? Doughnuts, coffee, tea...hell no you think this is a potential problem. When you open the door and tellthe person to hold on and you get a reply as reported and spit on, are you kidding me? Maybe this gender thing should be looked at more closely, I'm a girl, I;m going to spit on someone cause everyone knows its not cool to hit a girl? Excuse me, your flat ass on your back. Girls, act like girls and you wont' get your asses kicked and defenders of the gender, your lucky to be alive and I guarnatee you the owner would not spend a minute in jail fot it. If you can blow away some dudes in your neighbors yard what do you think you can do to some folks beating on your door and causing chaos after closing? Good luck.,

 
At August 19, 2008 10:14 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have not been part of the 'scene' in some years, but was very much a part of it for many years before I got old. I don't know anyone involved and I have never been to the club.

I think the reporter did an excellent job presenting both stories and actually making the effort to talk to both parties unbiased.

Now for my opinion. I would have liked a few more comments from both parties about the atmosphere of the evening. Things such as if there was tension in the air; like when skins and sharps are at the same show. If the bands are well known and welcomed (since the girls seem to be friends of the band). Was the band still there? If so, why did not one of the band members go in to get the keys? It has been my experience that bands usually leave last.

The girls were asking to get a beat down, but they should not have gotten what they asked for.

The club is a business no matter what part of town. It is hard for me imagine that the club does not have a peephole or way of communicating without giving full access to someone on the outside. If this is the case then The Swan just learned an expensive lesson about security. I have worked security at clubs. I got paid to take shit. Getting spit in the face is part of the job. It sucks, but you can quit. You come back to work because of all the great things being involved with a music scene can bring. If there is nobody in the club that understands this, then they need to hire people that can provide security and a buffer for annoyances.

Punk or whatever label that you want to put on it is an aggressive lifestyle for everyone involved and that is why others and myself love it so much. Both parties seem to be inexperienced in such atmospheres. The only ones that should have been beating people up are the cops.

 
At August 19, 2008 3:10 PM , Anonymous Megan said...

Guys, don't personally attact us. This isn't about who we are, this is about the actions that was taken upon us. We were no threat, thats what matters. We're little, didn't have weapons, didn't even throw a punch until they got violent first. Ok so you say grab your balls and go home & that we're whining? So tell me, what would you do if you got hit with a weapon? Or if it was your girlfriend getting curb stomped? Wouldn't you want to do something about it too? Put yourselves in our shoes.
I honestly don't care what the hell you people think, I just want the story to be heard. I'm trying to help anyone in the future that could get hurt there.
but thanks for all the compliments guys!


-Meg

 
At August 19, 2008 4:13 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

i am one of the members of a band that played that night, we left about one minite before that shit went down. i would like to start off by saying you should take really drunk girls (like the one that was trying to get her keys back) with a grain of salt. everybody who drinks alot and is around drunk people alot should know that sometimes you get in shitty moods/ situations and lose control very very easily. im not saying her actions were right and i have no tolerance for people that spit in your face. but the people that run the white swan should have been way more proffessional about there decisions. if that happend at another venue like werehause live or meridian it would have not gone down like that, the owners/security are there to neutralize the situation not bash them in the head with rifles. and all these comments about punk rock, i would advise keeping your ignorance to yourself!

 
At August 20, 2008 8:52 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been booking shows at the white swan for years and i know the employees very well. i also know some of the kids involved. and im sorry to say i would put the white swans character WAY over the kids i know involved. I talked to the white swan employees over the phone.
YOU CANT expect to be let into a business while they are counting money, and when you try to break in... they are gonna think its for the money. I cant believe you kids acted so irrationally, im sure if you werent drunk at the time... you wouldve been like "OK, i will wait until you are open again".
its a business, what do expect?
two of the kids involved have been a menace in the scene for years and many people have been wanting to ban them from shows. now we can.

 
At August 20, 2008 6:09 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was like half way through reading the comments and I had to stop and leave one to all the dumbfucks saying that we shouldn't play the "sexist card".. are you shitting me? None of yall even know what happened.. it was an OLD FAT dude, some 300 pounds and 3 girls who all way around 100.. I think one actually weighs LESS than that. And SHE DIDN'T SPIT IN HIS FACE.. I WAS THERE. She asked for the keys and he said "I don't give a shit, that's not my problem" and closed the door... so she started banging on it because ONCE AGAIN.. 3 girls downtown with no way to get into their car. OH and the whole counting money thing.. all bullshit, he NEVER said anything remotely close to that.

 
At August 20, 2008 6:25 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear god I wish I had internet.So I would be that "anonymous girl" from that night.Heres what REALLY happened.
About 30 minutes after the white swan had closed my friend came to realize that "shit, she didn't have her keys". I came up to the front door and knocked. After a few minutes the owner cracked the door open, I told him the situation and his exact words were"I don't give a shit, it's not my fucking problem."
Spitting was never involved.
He slammed the door in my face before I could have even had a chance to say anything else let alone spit in his face.
Also, the "counting money thing" never happened. Everyone is aware that the majority of the employees at the white swan are drug addicts.I seriously doubt they were doing anything else after closing time.
Anyways, I continued to knock on the door and he came out with a rife.I don't remember him hitting me I blacked out for a few minutes I came to with my head gushing blood and my friend on the phone with 911.
None of this should have ever happened, too many people were hurt and if I was at all at fault I would apologize but I really didn't do anything wrong.
And yes, I am going to press charges because I am lucky enough to have a family friend who is a lawyer.
I'm going to get what I feel is fair out of this.
-Bonnie

 
At August 20, 2008 6:33 PM , Anonymous franki w.an F said...

I too know these kids. It is very much part of their character to be the cause of all th,well as far as the topic at hand is concerned. They have started fights with me & my boyfriend at a club & when the cops came they ran off like the little brats they are,if you are going to kick someone in the back expect to be punched in the face & as far as this situation if you are gonna spit on someone expect the same. I am 4'11(AND A GIRL) & i would expect it if i went & tried to bust in some club when theres money being counted & then spit on that person,drunk or not theres no excuse! I hope these kids get banned, maybe they should do some growing up then decide to go out & consume alcohol. Take responsibility for your actions for once.

 
At August 20, 2008 7:01 PM , Anonymous splat said...

Ive had a run in before with these "women" and boy before. The boy had kicked me in the back and then denied it when i confronted him about it. then when i shoved him over and over again and followed him outside of the bar where the confrintaion continued and then i am tackled and told that i am the attacker and that they are the victim, and i am handcuffed and soon after my girlfiend is cuffed for hitting one of the "women" who were trying to fight his battles by pointlessly trying to punch me, the cops let me and my lady go after they decided that they had no story considering all the others had run away. After that night they went around telling everyone that we were sent to jail, which is not true....so my intake on this whole thing is one sided in the manner that they are liars and cant take up for themselves even though they act as if they can. SO when somebody finally knocks em sensless they do go crying about it..take it and live with it, dont cry about it

p.s.
didnt look that serious anyway

 
At August 21, 2008 11:20 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

either way that place sux dick, the whole "scene" thing is stupid, h.up's msg brds are stupid. ban them, and close that dump, and give that guy dentures.

 
At August 21, 2008 3:54 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

what goes around comes around. KARMA. & all that other cliche' stuff. believe me those kids arent victims!

 
At August 22, 2008 2:52 PM , Anonymous Don said...

Unfortunately I was out of town last week, but I think it should be fairly evident from anyone who has read the article and comments here that both parties did not handle the situation well.

However, the fact is that White Swan employees have always been very kind and helpful to me - I find the idea of him coming out with a rifle after a simple question to be completely absurd.

I'll be there tomorrow night to show my support for the venue.

 

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